Welcome to BookBoardz.com!
FAQFAQ    SearchSearch      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements?

 
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
   Book Forums (Home) -> David Weber RSS
Next:  DPRK and Emmanuel Goldstein...  
Author Message
dahak_ii

External


Since: Jul 03, 2003
Posts: 132



(Msg. 16) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>david-weber (more info?)

On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 01:18:07 GMT, an orbiting mind-control laser made
Brian McDonald write:

>>So we were both wrong. It's a 9km diameter sphere.
>
>
>i have the nagging feeling we're overlooking something important here.
>
>for instance would it actually be a sphere or would it be limited to a
>conical form? this also assumes the vector change is constant for
>that critical tenth of a second.

Bingo!


OSmile

-JPB

 >> Stay informed about: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? 
Back to top
Login to vote
dahak_ii

External


Since: Jul 03, 2003
Posts: 132



(Msg. 17) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:09:42 GMT, an orbiting mind-control laser made
Lorenzo Micheletto write:

>IMHO given their sensor and computer technologies, telemetry must be quite
>advanced, it's just in the books Weber don't spend too much time on it.
>
>About upgrades ... there are a lot of things that could be improved, it's
>only a matter of deciding what doesn't bend the rules too much.
>
>a) "Hyper submarines"

Just a quibble:

The actual physical transition between bands is, I believe,
instantaneous.

Hyper navigation as currently described by Weber is nothing more
than really, /really/ well-refined dead-reckoning (if we go this fast,
for this long, in this hyper band, we ought to be... HERE! Ironically,
just like I imagine current submarine navigation.)

Yes, you have the physiological effects of translation, but that
varies by speed at translation.

Traditional navigation rules reassert themselves upon emergence
into realspace with a difficulty level dependent on the location at
emergence. (Are you in interstellar space? Locating navigation
'landmarks' becomes time consuming. Are you in a heavily
industrialized system? Then there should be plenty of navigation
markers that make triangulating your location much, much, easier.)

> It is one of the things that has not been improved, probably
> because most of the fights happen inside the hyperlimit, jumping
> quickly in and out of hyperspace wasn't on the "must have" list
> of Manticore or Haven.

Ever since /At All Costs/ I've been wondering about the tactical
utility of hyperspace micro-jumping. We see exactly that at Lovat.
Yanakov dropped in behind the opponent that was trapped inside the
Limit, blasted them, recovered his LAC screen, jumped out, then
dropped in behind the second trapped force and then killed /it/.

> Now, imagine a ship with better hyperspace "navigation" systems
> and more powerful generators or superconductive accumulator
> so it can perform multiple "micro jumps" with enough precision
> to perform "close range" shoot-and-run against an enemy ship
> (i.e. it pops out of hyper, fires its grasers, jumps back into hyper
> and then repeats the attack from another direction).

Unfortunately, there really aren't any better navigation systems.
But what you want here is actually a faster way back into hyper.

Once you drop back into realspace, your hyper generators need time
to recycle. The time required depends on the volume of the required
field (although David usually just says 'by mass,' which implies
volume restrictions).

Smaller ships can recycle faster than larger ones and David
doesn't want to get too tied down to exact figures to give him some
wiggle room for changes down the road.

There is /also/ a minimum delay between the time you hit the
button to start your boost into hyper and when the field builds high
enough to actually translate.

This applies a minimum amount of time required to /stay/ in
realspace. (No doubt, David added this little curlicue to hyper for
the express reason of not allowing you to pop in, blaze away at a
target, then pop out again before its return fire can range on you,
just as the inclusion of the Hyper Limit, itself, means you can't pop
into realspace right on top of your target and blast it before it
knows you're there.)

If you require four minutes to recycle your hyper generator and
you've dropped in only three minutes' missile flight-time from your
target, then, you may have to take a few lumps before you leave.


You really seem to be describing a recon platform.

So far, the energy bleed affected by the translation from hyper to
realspace is too great to hide, so the defenders will almost always
know that /something/ is out there.

Once there, you devolve into simple stealthing regimes.

>b) fleet level gravitic phased arrays
>
> Or "if it works with electromagnetic waves ...".
> Active phased array radars can perform some nasty tricks
> on enemy avionics, think about its gravitic equivalent.
> What may happen if lots of LACs or maybe all the ships in a task force
> modulate in sync their impellers like a massive phased array to produce
> focused "gravitic beam/pulses" ?
> Just something capable to disturb enemy sensors could be terrific
> because it traslates into less effective enemy defences
> and degraded guidance for enemy weapons.

It wouldn't surprise me if they already do something just like
that, at least on a passive regime, although once the shooting starts,
station-keeping becomes problematical.

Otherwise, what you seem to be describing, as an active system, is
a fleet-wide (god help us) grav lance.

>c) SESD MIRV (Suppression of Enemy Defense MIRV)
>
> Like multi stage missiles, but their third stage is 3..4
> countermissiles-like warheads designed to gut the enemy defense system
> (i.e. to damage sensors,laser emitters, countermissile launchers
> and anything that's vulnerable on the outer parts of a ship).
> Packing enough of them in the first wave of missiles will open the path
> for the second wave.

I'm not going to say this is a /bad/ idea, but what you've tasked
these things to do is pretty much what the shipkillers are doing
anyway: they poke holes in the target's defenses by... poking holes in
the target. Then the follow-on waves generally have softer targeting
environments.

> A further improvement is to improve the multiple warhead communications
> so their sensors can operate in synthetic aperture mode and shoot
> at roughtly the same position on the same target if it is big enough.
> So instead of a hit or miss single warhead the MIRV has more probability
> to inflict at least partial damage and helps in saturating and/or
> degrade enemy defenses).

Ship-launched capital missiles already have multiple 'MIRVed'
warheads that do exactly that: they form a small array to improve
their targeting.

How they maneuver and stay in formation within a running missile
drive wedge, has never been elaborated upon.

> Another improvement is to simulate a missile hitten by countermissiles
> when the third stage missiles detach.

Not sure what you mean here. Have a small percentage of your
flight go ballistic after second stage burnout as a 'sucker punch'
flight?

That wouldn't be too bad an idea, in some instances.

>d) swarm pods with delayed activation

Dropping pods on ballistic courses against a /mobile/ defensive
force could be a mite... problematic.

Despite all you do to try to chivvy the defenders onto the track
you want, they may not cooperate. Then you've wasted all those pods.

Also, it'd be kinda tough to get a no- or low-acceleration pod
into position several lightminutes inside the Limit when your primary
'stalking horse' will be employing several hundred gs of accel to get
itself into position.

Just like Thurston's problems with Operation Dagger, using a plan
that /requires/ your enemy to do what you want is a great way to screw
it up, fast.

"No battle plan survives contact with the enemy. That's why he's
the enemy."


-JPB

 >> Stay informed about: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? 
Back to top
Login to vote
dsample

External


Since: Jul 01, 2004
Posts: 312



(Msg. 18) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article ,
Dahak wrote:

> On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:58:15 -0500, an orbiting mind-control laser
> made Don Sample write:
>
> >Attack range for a laser head is 30,000 km. That's a tenth of a second
> >for any lightspeed defensive fire, so add a little random jinking to the
> >missile's terminal maneuvers (taking place at 90,000g) and the laser
> >clusters are trying to hit something a few metres long, somewhere inside
> >a sphere with a 9 km radius. In other words there is no way in hell
> >that a laser can hit a missile at that range. Meanwhile the missile's
> >got lots of time to actually *see* the ship its shooting at before it
> >detonates.
>
> Your reasoning would be fine, so long as the acceleration imparted
> by the drive bands could be imparted instantaneously in any direction.
>
> It's pretty clear that that is not the case.
>
> The primary mode of operation of the drive is to apply insanely
> high acceleration in one direction.
>
> You can not /change/ the acceleration of a missile drive and
> vector changes appear to be really slow.
>
> Granted, 45000 or 90000 gs of acceleration when you alter the
> 'thrust vector' even by a tiny bit can give your PD clusters
> significant targeting problems, but it's not as cut and dried as you
> imply in your post.
>
> At detonation ranges, any missiles with a decent chance of hitting
> the target are no longer actually maneuvering defensively: they're
> busy settling into a direct approach so that they can sight their
> target, which simplifies the PD firing solution immensely - there's
> little to no bearing change.

Even if it can't change its vector by much, just cutting the drive at
some point during that 1/10 of a second makes it a pretty much
impossible targeting problem.

And a tenth of a second is a very long time, even for current computers.
The missile can make a random vector change, and then spend the next
..099999 seconds finding its target, aiming at it and then detonating.

--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
 >> Stay informed about: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? 
Back to top
Login to vote
dsample

External


Since: Jul 01, 2004
Posts: 312



(Msg. 19) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article ,
Dahak wrote:

> Traditional navigation rules reassert themselves upon emergence
> into realspace with a difficulty level dependent on the location at
> emergence. (Are you in interstellar space? Locating navigation
> 'landmarks' becomes time consuming.

They're called "stars", and you can see them from really far away. Some
of the brightest stars in Earth's sky will be visible throughout the
explored volume of space in the Honorverse. Betelgeuse is over 400
light years away, and Rigel is 700. They will be among the brightest
objects in the sky for *any* of the settled worlds in Weber's universe.
Getting a navigational fix is something that should take only seconds
after emerging from hyperspace.

--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
 >> Stay informed about: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Ben H

External


Since: Jan 01, 2008
Posts: 9



(Msg. 20) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Jan 1, 4:21 pm, Dahak
wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:39:01 -0500, an orbiting mind-control laser
> made Don Sample write:
>
> >> Recall that the /Harvest Joy/, a ship expressly designed to
> >> explore potentially random spots took a vague, but significant,
> >> non-trivial amount of time to determine her position upon her arrival
> >> at Lynx.
>
> >Which was something that was patently silly.
>
> So... you'll ignore it.
>
> OK, how long do you expect it should take to do an all-sky survey,
> filter out the hundred brightest stars, then develop detailed enough
> spectrograms on each one to run against your database?
>
> -JPB


*shrug*
I'm just an amateur astronomer, so there might be better informed
heads in these lofty circles, but analyzing just the brightest
_hundred_ stars shouldn't be difficult, or time consuming at all. The
warships after all carry optics capable of picking up a mere spaceship
at considerable ranges, running a spectrogram on a particularly bright
star should be easy.

The problem comes with figuring out just what the hell that means.
Sure I can say "Betelgeuse is over there, and thirty degrees east of
it there's Arcturus" but thats not significantly useful, without
already having a strong indication of where you're at.
You need to have a good idea of how far you are from these stars
before their positions in the "sky" are of great use. Differences in
magnitude will give you a good idea, but you're really going to want
something like a Cepheid variable, where you _know_ its absolute
magnitude. So what you're going to end up looking for aren't the
hundred brightest stars, but rather the 50 closest Cepheids. Which
_will_ take time, since you've got to find them

Parallax could be used, but its incredibly time consuming.
The Hipparcos sattelite only measured the parallax of 118,000 stars in
a four year period.
 >> Stay informed about: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? 
Back to top
Login to vote
dahak_ii

External


Since: Jul 03, 2003
Posts: 132



(Msg. 21) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 14:02:35 -0500, an orbiting mind-control laser
made Don Sample write:

>> At detonation ranges, any missiles with a decent chance of hitting
>> the target are no longer actually maneuvering defensively: they're
>> busy settling into a direct approach so that they can sight their
>> target, which simplifies the PD firing solution immensely - there's
>> little to no bearing change.
>
>Even if it can't change its vector by much, just cutting the drive at
>some point during that 1/10 of a second makes it a pretty much
>impossible targeting problem.

How so?

At that stage of the attack run, it's boring straight in (with
minor curlicues for maneuvers on the part of the target).

>And a tenth of a second is a very long time, even for current computers.
>The missile can make a random vector change, and then spend the next
>.099999 seconds finding its target, aiming at it and then detonating.

That's assuming you can apply a /significant/ vector change in
that fractional second, which not at all supported.


-JPB
 >> Stay informed about: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? 
Back to top
Login to vote
dahak_ii

External


Since: Jul 03, 2003
Posts: 132



(Msg. 22) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 14:35:20 -0500, an orbiting mind-control laser
made Don Sample write:

>In article ,
> Dahak wrote:
>
>> Traditional navigation rules reassert themselves upon emergence
>> into realspace with a difficulty level dependent on the location at
>> emergence. (Are you in interstellar space? Locating navigation
>> 'landmarks' becomes time consuming.
>
>They're called "stars", and you can see them from really far away. Some
>of the brightest stars in Earth's sky will be visible throughout the
>explored volume of space in the Honorverse. Betelgeuse is over 400
>light years away, and Rigel is 700. They will be among the brightest
>objects in the sky for *any* of the settled worlds in Weber's universe.
>Getting a navigational fix is something that should take only seconds
>after emerging from hyperspace.

Oh, thank you. That never occurred to me. How silly of me.



Recall that the /Harvest Joy/, a ship expressly designed to
explore potentially random spots took a vague, but significant,
non-trivial amount of time to determine her position upon her arrival
at Lynx.

Granted, it's not as hard for a warship to do, since the warship
will know the general volume in which it /should/ be, but I think
you're glossing over the details and the time involved too much.


-JPB
 >> Stay informed about: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? 
Back to top
Login to vote
dsample

External


Since: Jul 01, 2004
Posts: 312



(Msg. 23) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article ,
Dahak wrote:

> On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 14:02:35 -0500, an orbiting mind-control laser
> made Don Sample write:
>
> >> At detonation ranges, any missiles with a decent chance of hitting
> >> the target are no longer actually maneuvering defensively: they're
> >> busy settling into a direct approach so that they can sight their
> >> target, which simplifies the PD firing solution immensely - there's
> >> little to no bearing change.
> >
> >Even if it can't change its vector by much, just cutting the drive at
> >some point during that 1/10 of a second makes it a pretty much
> >impossible targeting problem.
>
> How so?
>
> At that stage of the attack run, it's boring straight in (with
> minor curlicues for maneuvers on the part of the target).

For an ideal attack the missile would be moving perpendicularly across
the bow or stern of the ship it's attacking, not coming straight in.


> >And a tenth of a second is a very long time, even for current computers.
> >The missile can make a random vector change, and then spend the next
> >.099999 seconds finding its target, aiming at it and then detonating.
>
> That's assuming you can apply a /significant/ vector change in
> that fractional second, which not at all supported.

Even a chemical rocket motor could impart enough delta-v in that time to
make it a tough target to hit at that range.

--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
 >> Stay informed about: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? 
Back to top
Login to vote
dsample

External


Since: Jul 01, 2004
Posts: 312



(Msg. 24) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article ,
Dahak wrote:

> On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 14:35:20 -0500, an orbiting mind-control laser
> made Don Sample write:
>
> >In article ,
> > Dahak wrote:
> >
> >> Traditional navigation rules reassert themselves upon emergence
> >> into realspace with a difficulty level dependent on the location at
> >> emergence. (Are you in interstellar space? Locating navigation
> >> 'landmarks' becomes time consuming.
> >
> >They're called "stars", and you can see them from really far away. Some
> >of the brightest stars in Earth's sky will be visible throughout the
> >explored volume of space in the Honorverse. Betelgeuse is over 400
> >light years away, and Rigel is 700. They will be among the brightest
> >objects in the sky for *any* of the settled worlds in Weber's universe.
> >Getting a navigational fix is something that should take only seconds
> >after emerging from hyperspace.
>
> Oh, thank you. That never occurred to me. How silly of me.
>
>
>
> Recall that the /Harvest Joy/, a ship expressly designed to
> explore potentially random spots took a vague, but significant,
> non-trivial amount of time to determine her position upon her arrival
> at Lynx.

Which was something that was patently silly.

--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
 >> Stay informed about: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Aahz Maruch

External


Since: Nov 08, 2007
Posts: 34



(Msg. 25) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article ,
Ben H wrote:
>
>I'm just an amateur astronomer, so there might be better informed
>heads in these lofty circles, but analyzing just the brightest
>_hundred_ stars shouldn't be difficult, or time consuming at all. The
>warships after all carry optics capable of picking up a mere spaceship
>at considerable ranges, running a spectrogram on a particularly bright
>star should be easy.

There's also the issue that because you don't know where you are, you
have no clue what your vector is and therefore you don't know what
red/blue shift to apply to each spectrogram.
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Seventeenth Virtual Anniversary: 365 days and counting
 >> Stay informed about: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? 
Back to top
Login to vote
dahak_ii

External


Since: Jul 03, 2003
Posts: 132



(Msg. 26) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:34:40 -0500, an orbiting mind-control laser
made Don Sample write:

>In article ,
> Dahak wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 14:02:35 -0500, an orbiting mind-control laser
>> made Don Sample write:
>>
>> >> At detonation ranges, any missiles with a decent chance of hitting
>> >> the target are no longer actually maneuvering defensively: they're
>> >> busy settling into a direct approach so that they can sight their
>> >> target, which simplifies the PD firing solution immensely - there's
>> >> little to no bearing change.
>> >
>> >Even if it can't change its vector by much, just cutting the drive at
>> >some point during that 1/10 of a second makes it a pretty much
>> >impossible targeting problem.
>>
>> How so?
>>
>> At that stage of the attack run, it's boring straight in (with
>> minor curlicues for maneuvers on the part of the target).
>
>For an ideal attack the missile would be moving perpendicularly across
>the bow or stern of the ship it's attacking, not coming straight in.

That would allow you the greatest damage effect as a shot at the
range against the sidewall.

Once you get the missile to a range at which its shots can burn
through a sidewall, the arc of vulnerability is much, much greater
against that sidewall than what would be possible if you were
deliberately waiting for a kilt or throat shot.

>> >And a tenth of a second is a very long time, even for current computers.
>> >The missile can make a random vector change, and then spend the next
>> >.099999 seconds finding its target, aiming at it and then detonating.
>>
>> That's assuming you can apply a /significant/ vector change in
>> that fractional second, which not at all supported.
>
>Even a chemical rocket motor could impart enough delta-v in that time to
>make it a tough target to hit at that range.

But when your missile is being fired on /and hit/ in that sliver
of a second you're giving your chemical thrusters, it ain't going
anywhere significant enough to matter.


-JPB
 >> Stay informed about: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? 
Back to top
Login to vote
dahak_ii

External


Since: Jul 03, 2003
Posts: 132



(Msg. 27) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:39:01 -0500, an orbiting mind-control laser
made Don Sample write:

>> Recall that the /Harvest Joy/, a ship expressly designed to
>> explore potentially random spots took a vague, but significant,
>> non-trivial amount of time to determine her position upon her arrival
>> at Lynx.
>
>Which was something that was patently silly.

So... you'll ignore it.

OK, how long do you expect it should take to do an all-sky survey,
filter out the hundred brightest stars, then develop detailed enough
spectrograms on each one to run against your database?

-JPB
 >> Stay informed about: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Ben H

External


Since: Jan 01, 2008
Posts: 9



(Msg. 28) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Jan 1, 7:52 pm, Don Sample wrote:
> In article
> ,
>  Ben H wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 1, 4:21 pm, Dahak
> > wrote:
> > > On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:39:01 -0500, an orbiting mind-control laser
> > > made Don Sample write:
>
> > > >>        Recall that the /Harvest Joy/, a ship expressly designed to
> > > >> explore potentially random spots took a vague, but significant,
> > > >> non-trivial amount of time to determine her position upon her arrival
> > > >> at Lynx.
>
> > > >Which was something that was patently silly.
>
> > >         So... you'll ignore it.
>
> > >         OK, how long do you expect it should take to do an all-sky survey,
> > > filter out the hundred brightest stars, then develop detailed enough
> > > spectrograms on each one to run against your database?
>
> > > -JPB
>
> > *shrug*
> > I'm just an amateur astronomer, so there might be better informed
> > heads in these lofty circles, but analyzing just the brightest
> > _hundred_ stars shouldn't be difficult, or time consuming at all. The
> > warships after all carry optics capable of picking up a mere spaceship
> > at considerable ranges, running a spectrogram on a particularly bright
> > star should be easy.
>
> > The problem comes with figuring out just what the hell that means.
> > Sure I can say "Betelgeuse is over there, and thirty degrees east of
> > it there's Arcturus" but thats not significantly useful, without
> > already having a strong indication of where you're at.
> > You need to have a good idea of how far you are from these stars
> > before their positions in the "sky" are of great use.
>
> Two stars will put you somewhere on the surface of a shell. Add a third,
> and you've got yourself a point.
>
> --
> Quando omni flunkus moritati
> Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I don't rightly understand what you're getting at.
If I found myself in a foreign star system, and was able to correctly
identify the stars Betelgeuse, Rigel and Aldebaaran, what good does
that do me?
I can't triangulate my position until I know where I am in relation to
the stars, which requires knowing the distances. Measuring the
distance to a star like Rigel would require the use of parallax, which
takes longer then scanning the stars, saying Ope! There's Rigel! A
starship does have the advantage of being able to cross a large volume
of space very quickly, which would help refine parallax measurements
more quickly, but you're still going to want to jump at least 1 AU
from your initial point before taking a second measurement. It is
_not_ something that can be done to any useful degree of accuracy in
seconds, or even minutes.
_If_ you could locate enough Cepheid variables, with a short period
mind, you could do it in a couple hours, most likely.
 >> Stay informed about: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Ben H

External


Since: Jan 01, 2008
Posts: 9



(Msg. 29) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Jan 1, 6:55 pm, a....TakeThisOut@pobox.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote:
> In article ,
> Ben H   wrote:
>
>
>
> >I'm just an amateur astronomer, so there might be better informed
> >heads in these lofty circles, but analyzing just the brightest
> >_hundred_ stars shouldn't be difficult, or time consuming at all. The
> >warships after all carry optics capable of picking up a mere spaceship
> >at considerable ranges, running a spectrogram on a particularly bright
> >star should be easy.
>
> There's also the issue that because you don't know where you are, you
> have no clue what your vector is and therefore you don't know what
> red/blue shift to apply to each spectrogram.
> --
> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                        http://rule6.info/
>                       <*>           <*>           <*>
> Seventeenth Virtual Anniversary: 365 days and counting

Presumably the entire spectra of the star would be shifted. You don't
have to perfectly match the spectra, just show coorelated bands.
 >> Stay informed about: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? 
Back to top
Login to vote
dsample

External


Since: Jul 01, 2004
Posts: 312



(Msg. 30) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article ,
Dahak wrote:

> On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:34:40 -0500, an orbiting mind-control laser
> made Don Sample write:
>
> >In article ,
> > Dahak wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 14:02:35 -0500, an orbiting mind-control laser
> >> made Don Sample write:
> >>

> >> >And a tenth of a second is a very long time, even for current computers.
> >> >The missile can make a random vector change, and then spend the next
> >> >.099999 seconds finding its target, aiming at it and then detonating.
> >>
> >> That's assuming you can apply a /significant/ vector change in
> >> that fractional second, which not at all supported.
> >
> >Even a chemical rocket motor could impart enough delta-v in that time to
> >make it a tough target to hit at that range.
>
> But when your missile is being fired on /and hit/ in that sliver
> of a second you're giving your chemical thrusters, it ain't going
> anywhere significant enough to matter.

But the missile is not being hit. By the time your laser shot gets
there, the missile is somewhere else. (And the tenth of a second is
only if you can localize the missile with gravtic sensors. If you're
relying on radar, it's twice that.)

--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
 >> Stay informed about: Ideas for honorverse space navy improvements? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
Related Topics:
Maps of the Honorverse - Hi, I am new to this group. I have been searching the web looking for maps of the "Honorverse". I have found several but not in the detail I am interested in. They are all "schematic" but I am more interested in x/y coordinate syst...

Honorverse Cosplay? - So, I've gotten it in my head to do a Honor Harrington cosplay of some sort for sci-fi cons in Texas. I'm kind of a short guy, so I figured I might cosplay as a Grayson officer. Any suggestions on how to do this? I was thinking getting a surplus Air...

Getting the whole honorverse in one bundle - Hi, Could you suggest the best Internet place to get the whole HH series (all 17 books so far) in one bundle (in US)? What's the best deal on such a wholesale (both hardcover and paperback series)? thanks

Honorverse: Dramatis Personae - Hi everybody, is there a list in the web with all the people acting in the different stories? Such that it is possible to find out when e.g. Alice Truman possessed what rank? TIA Michael Dahms

Honorverse: Body Count? - If you consider the Manticore-Haven war as starting in "On Basilisk Station," has anyone ever worked out total casualty figures for the Manties, the Peeps, and the Graysons respectively? Compared and contrasted to any total population data we m...
   Book Forums (Home) -> David Weber All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Page 2 of 5

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Warning: fopen(/home/adsense_reject.txt) [function.fopen]: failed to open stream: Permission denied in /home/autoforu/public_html/Giga/GigaFunctions.php on line 1142

Warning: fwrite(): supplied argument is not a valid stream resource in /home/autoforu/public_html/Giga/GigaFunctions.php on line 1143

Warning: fclose(): supplied argument is not a valid stream resource in /home/autoforu/public_html/Giga/GigaFunctions.php on line 1144



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]